SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Real Estate Real Life Podcast. I'm Nick Stockaberg, and here with me is my wife, Dr. Elaine Stockaberg.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

It's been a couple of weeks since we released an episode. Yeah, did something happen here in the last few weeks? We had baby number six.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

We do everything at scale.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Yes, we do everything at scale. We are excited, delighted, just overjoyed, so blessed to share that baby Elizabeth was born in May, and blessedly, she is happy and healthy and fits right in with the whole crew. Of course, all the big kids love her. It's been so sweet for me. We have one daughter who's 10 years old and then four boys. And of course, we knew that our daughter would be super smitten with not just a new baby, but a new baby girl. But it's also been super sweet seeing how much our younger boys are so into her. Even our 18-month-old, he always says, baby, baby, and he very softly pets her and rubs her hair. And it's just been so, so, so sweet. So thank you for allowing us the space to have a couple of weeks to focus on our family here. And we're excited actually to share here in this episode what was baby Elizabeth's first real outing outside of the house, besides maybe just like a quick target run or dropping off an older sibling at soccer practice or something like that. We took baby Elizabeth when she was just about two and a half weeks old to something here in Rochester, Minnesota, our home market. This is where we've built our half billion dollar portfolio. It's where Nick and I have lived for the last 10 years. It's where I did my training in psychiatry at the Mayo Clinic to something that's hosted every year in Rochester that's called the Destination Medical Center Real Estate Summit. And I think this is our third or fourth year that we've been attending. And when I was pregnant and we saw the date, I said, you know what, go ahead and register me for that. If you're just not feeling well or just really overwhelmed with the baby, Nick can go by himself. But I knew I really wanted to go to it because it's a really enjoyable event that provides a lot of really valuable information that we use every year to help us with our investing decisions and to help us to understand the Rochester market. And it's just so fascinating. So we're gonna share with you what Destination Medical Center is all about. We're gonna talk about the Mayo Clinic expansion that's called Bold Forward Unbound. And even if you have no interest whatsoever in the expansion of a hospital or in this relatively small town in the Midwest, I think you're gonna learn a lot about choosing a real estate market, about understanding some investment fundamentals that apply to any market. And also just some really interesting things about public-private partnerships, development, growth of a community. We just love this summit every year. And that's why we took our two-week-old baby out to attend the summit.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

So we've got some fun bullet points here, principles that we live by and takeaways that hopefully give you some actionable insights here in our short time together. The first one is the concept of the integrated life. People always ask us, how do you do it all? How do you have a balanced life? And that's, I know it's just not a worldview that we subscribe to. We think that when you can't quite tell when work stops and play starts, or vice versa, that's when you're living a beautiful life. We've had the privilege to help a lot of people reach financial freedom, and we figured out that it's not that fun sitting on a beach for more than a few weeks. Like you need to be active and engaged, and the reason for living is the search for meaningful work, and when you can mix work and play, that's when just everything, your whole life becomes so much richer. So people are often like, well, well, how the heck do you have this business and you have so many babies? Well, we just take the babies with us, and we'll go on tours of huge apartment buildings for sale or appraisals or inspections, and we're just always the people that have the baby. And this is usually like a boardroom coat and tie. Someone gets on a plane from New York type meeting, and we're professionally dressed. Although I guess in the photos we sent out, Elaine looked fabulous. I looked a little bit exhausted in the pictures, but we're professional and everything. We just have a baby, or we've got a couple kids in tow, and we have never once had someone say, Hey, what are you doing here with a baby?

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Oh no, they say that except they're like excited. They're like, How old is this baby? What's this baby's name? You know, it's it's super fun. And that's what works for us, right? For Vetty people, they want more of that nesting at home postpartum experience. Like you do you. For what works for me, I think particularly because we have had so many children in such a short period of time, is I literally was just out to lunch with just me and baby Elizabeth. And a person just randomly came up to me and said, Well, good for you for getting out with such a young baby. And I just kind of chuckled and said, You know, I've had six of them in the last 10 years. I can't be locked up for 10 years straight. And that's what works for us, right? You do what works for you. Um we love just kind of incorporating our children into it. I'll share a funny little tidbit and then we'll get into talking about the real estate summit several years ago when the market was really, really hot and it was very much a seller's market, and it was hard to get the attention of brokers, and everything went to multiple very competitive offers and all sorts of things. There was a particular broker who had a number of listings in our area that really just was not giving us the time of day. And finally, we were able to get a showing of a large apartment community with this broker. And we very much knew we had 15 to 30 minutes to try to see the apartment community, try to build a relationship with this person, make it so that the next time we called this person, he actually answered the phone instead of punting us to voicemail or to his assistant. And we had just had our baby Abram. And this person's name was Abraham, and he went by Abe. And I'm wearing this baby. Abram's probably, gosh, maybe three months old because he was born in April and this was like a summer showing. So I'm wearing baby Abram. And I just walk right up to him and I said, Abe, nice to meet you in person. I'm Elaine. It's been so great having some emails and things with you. We're excited to meet with you in person. This is baby Abe. You're Abe. He's Abe. Isn't this so fun? Let me take a picture. And that totally changed the relationship with this very important commercial broker. He took our calls after that. We had a personal relationship. We had some rapport. I could have had the baby at home and just said, oh, cool. You know, I recently named my baby Abram. Your name's Abraham. So fun. But just having this baby right there, it was very different than any of the other apartment tours he had that day, that week, probably in his career. That's just a little aside for our episode about the crazy integrated life that we lead, merging work and play, home and business. And hopefully you pick up some tidbits there that you can think about. Like Nick said, if you're able to build a life where the line between work and play is so blurred that you're really not sure which one you're doing, I have found time and time again that is a universal recipe for success.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

So a real estate investing principle that you may be heard, but I think it's so valuable to keep hearing it over and over again is that you may have heard that that's location, location, location in real estate, or said another way that that real estate is hyperlocal in almost every city in the country. There is a big block-by-block difference. If you're on Third Street, it's just a different street than being on Fourth Street. It's zoned differently. One is historic, one is new modern construction, one is houses, one is apartments. And it's very difficult to successfully invest in real estate unless you yourself or one of the active partners in the deal has that local knowledge, that hyper-local knowledge. I grew up in Rochester and uh walked these streets delivering newspapers as a young child and just have that sort of tangible knowledge of these locations. And in the Destination Medical Center initiative, it's incredible the amount of thought that they put into this. We're gonna put this billion-dollar building, they're spending about five billion dollars on the current campus expansion. And there is a huge difference between putting that on third street versus fourth street, and that has a huge knock-on effect on the next street over. So they're putting in uh transitional architecture, and we have this huge bet that we made, or uh lottery tickets, as we we sometimes playfully like to call them. I don't like that because most lottery tickets lose. And with real estate, Warren Buffett says the ideal winning formula is something that produces like a regular safe return that has a chance for a wild upside. We bought on all of the blocks, all the streets, all the corners, where we thought it was most likely that Mayo would be building the hospital of the future. And they published their plans, and there's a lot of very educated guesses you could make, and ultimately we just bought everything that made financial sense in the right place. And some of our properties ended up being literally across the street from this multi-billion dollar building. And it's a challenging time right now.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Several of our properties have their very own construction fencing. They do. So that the residents living in those buildings can still make it home. Yeah. It's literally in the midst of a construction site. And so right now, today, it's a painful experience to have residential real estate literally inside of a construction zone.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

It's so sweet that they give us our own little box.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

That's really what it's all about is it's hyper, hyper, hyper local. So let's talk about some fundamentals. Maybe there isn't a $5 billion hospital expansion coming into your neighborhood. But one thing that people will ask us time and time again, probably the number one question that someone asks when they've made a decision, let's say, to do some active investing, whether it's a long-term rental, a short-term rental, the number one question they'll say is, well, what market should I invest in? Or they'll name a market. I'm thinking about investing in Birmingham or you name it, right? Jacksonville, name a city. And there's also there tends to be this like fascination with remote investing, with out of state investing. And I'll say to someone, well, why are you thinking about that market? Oh, I heard it's a hot market. And the number one thing that I will say, is there population growth and is there job growth? And you must be able to answer those questions. Is there population growth and is there job growth? Real estate, residential real estate is basically a game of musical chairs. When there are a lot of chairs and not a lot of players, you don't have to hustle to a seat, right? You could like do a little acrobat show while the music is still playing and you know that you're gonna be able to get a seat. When it's pretty balanced, there's about the same number of chairs as there are people, then the game starts to become somewhat competitive, but it's still not, it's still not like intense. Let's use that word. And when there's not enough chairs for the number of people, that's when the game becomes super intense, right? That's when people start dodging for seats and diving and pushing people out of the way and doing whatever they can to get a seat. That's how you need to think about choosing a market. Is there population growth and is there job growth? Are there well-paid people in that market that can live in the residential real estate units that you are thinking about investing in? The Destination Medical Center. So let's back up just a little bit because maybe you're new to this story. Maybe you're new to the podcast. You haven't been following our email newsletter for years, and you're like, what is Destination Medical Center in the first place? Destination Medical Center is the largest ever public-private partnership in the state of Minnesota that is seeking to increase the population of Rochester, Minnesota, which is home of the Mayo Clinic, the number one hospital in the world, rated many, many, many years in a row, so that Mayo has a larger workforce in order to become the destination medical center of the world. It focuses on infrastructure growth, tax-based growth, providing for the community so that more people live here, more people are educated here that can work for Mayo, providing everything that's needed for the people who come here to receive medical care, whether that's for a couple of days or they end up staying for months or years, or even choosing to permanently relocate to Rochester for their medical care. And it is a fascinating study in community development, in tax-based growth, in infrastructure, in bringing in investment from the state, the county, the city, federal grants, you name it, but then also supporting the investment and growth from private investors like ourselves, like Black Swan Real Estate. If you have invested with Black Swan Real Estate in any of our private equity funds, you've invested in the city of Rochester. You're part of this larger destination medical center initiative. And then as a part of that, Mayo Clinic, the number one hospital in the world, is doing the Hospital of the Future, which is a $5 billion expansion of its already very large, very robust campus in a relatively small town in the Midwest. Rochester, Minnesota, is about 150,000 people. $5 billion is staggering. So to put that into perspective, when Amazon was doing its HQ2 about 10 years ago, that was a $2.5 billion expansion. And you may remember at that time, it was all over every major news source. Cities were bending over backwards, contorting themselves, trying to court Amazon with tax incentives and other promises of infrastructure and transportation and housing, and you name it, to try to court Amazon into placing that HQ2 in their city. And ultimately that HQ2 never came to fruition. So to have a $5 billion investment from the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, and then wrapped around that is the Destination Medical Center, which is a 20-year initiative, a strategic plan to grow the city of Rochester to continue to support Mayo Clinic and being the hospital of the future and also having other healthcare, medical, biotech, AI, you name it, all of the things that are needed to support advancing healthcare, to have all of that right here in Rochester. Well, that answers for you the question of is there population growth? Yes, both organically and very strategically as a result of the Destination Medical Center initiative. And then is there job growth? Absolutely, through Mayo Clinic, through all these construction workers, through the other related businesses that are coming to Rochester so that they can collaborate with Mayo. So that helps you to understand why we are so enamored with Rochester. We've lived here for 10 years. I did my training here. We've built our portfolio here. We have really planted our flag in Rochester, Minnesota, very different than what you might hear from other private equity firms. We're not in the Sunbout, we're not on the coasts, we're not in the Carolinas, we're not in Florida. We're in this relatively small town in the Midwest. And it really all comes back to this understanding of Mayo Clinic's expansion and Destination Medical Center. And so each year, Destination Medical Center has this real estate summit where they summarize what's been happening, what's coming up in the coming years. And it just so happened to be that this year is the 10th year. So it's the halfway point of this really bold, really innovative strategic, 20-year strategic plan that really is unlike anything that's ever happened in the state of Minnesota or really even the country. And it was just so interesting. This real estate summit is interesting every year, which is why I was so committed to going, even though I had a two-week-old baby in tow. But just so fascinating, particularly at the 10-year mark, for people to look back and to say, you know, this is what we have accomplished, this is what we've worked through, and then to look ahead for the coming 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

One of the favorite takeaways I always have when I get a chance to spend time at Mayo in any way, shape, or form, the time orientation of that organization is absolutely staggering. They're living in a different century than you and I. And I had the privilege to serve in a kind of a high-level technology role for many years at Mayo. Elaine trained at Mayo, and they are always working on a 100-year vision, which kind of sounds crazy in today's day and age of AI, technology, that sort of thing. And it's not not just a slogan that they put on the wall. This is something that comes up in meetings. Like I was helping make a decision of what monitor to purchase, and the leadership would step back and say, Well, Nick, what monitor might help us advance the cause of medicine a hundred years from now? And like, well, I mean, we're talking about monitors. How is that relevant to no just stop and think about this? Okay, well, there's a lot of physicians who've practiced medicine for like going on half a century. There's a lot of very old physicians that are kind of like emeritus uh physicians there, and uh their vision's not so good. And if we could make room for an extra big monitor, maybe we could continue to have them engaged and benefit from their okay, so we should get the big monitor then. And like, this is literally how they make decisions. It it is what can we do so that the world's a better place a hundred years from now? And they go back to first principles on almost everything in almost every decision they make. So maybe you've seen how lots of data centers are getting built and there's not enough electricity and not enough water and just infrastructure. A couple decades ago, Mayo said, okay, well, at some point in the near future, we want to build the best hospital on earth. Something so vast, so great, so advanced that it's difficult to even envision what it's going to look like today. But no matter what, we know that thing it's probably gonna need some sewer pipes and it's gonna need some water pipes, and it's gonna need a whole lot of electricity, and it's gonna need waste reclamation facilities. So before they even knew what the hospital was going to look like, for decades, they were putting the puzzle pieces in place so that there would be infrastructure capacity for this glorious temple that they're building to medicine, to the medicine of the future. And this is something that they would talk about. These are the actual words they would speak. There's a lot of organizations that can't manage past next quarter. And years ago, Mayo was saying, well, one day we're gonna build this incredible thing, and we don't even know what it's gonna look like, but we know it's going to need some other things. So let's focus on those other things that must come first. We have to have parking. They build these vast parking accommodations and parking rides and parking structures before they even know where their call those cars are going to go, so that when the time comes, they can go build a five billion dollar campus in just a few years. It's crazy how fast it's popping out of the ground. And it was really cool at this juncture. So we're 20 years into this initiative where they have to grow the population of Rochester, the civil infrastructure of Rochester, the roads, everything. It's crazy how how much progress they've made. And they could say, hey, it's been a tough stretch, right? This is an urban core development project, and COVID happened. And there used to be this sudden intensification, this rush to urban core that there was throughout the 20 teens. That that social trend is what was a premise for DMC. And we could grouse about that, or we could celebrate the staggering amount of success that we've had in the last decade. Here's the decade behind us, and here's the decade to come. And so they very transparently, authentically, vulnerably say, hey, yeah, it's a tough time to be doing urban core development, but hey, it's actually a lot easier for us to move forward on our development progress. There's a lot less contention for that infrastructure, for those permits. And we're gonna, we're gonna lead the way, we're gonna lead the charge. And unfortunately, Mayo is such a vast organization that they can carry the ball. There's very few organizations that have that level of thought leadership and influence. So it's it's incredible to watch in real time an organization of that size, that scale, making such a staggering investment and have the presence of mind to have that long time orientation, to, to see a hundred years into the future, but also to be able to look 10 years into the past and say, yep, we've had some bumps, but man, look at all that we've come and and focus on the gain and not the gap.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

It was really affirming to hear reflected in many of the leaders from Destination Medical Center Initiative who spoke at the conference about the idea that the the overall vision and strategy for DMC really has not changed much since they originally cast the vision 10 years ago, right? To cast a 20-year vision in a community is challenging, period, right? That's essentially a whole generation. And then just think about, like Nick just said, like what has happened in the last 10 years and the pace of change. 20 years today, in 2026 or in 2016 when this first started, is the equivalent of a hundred years as recently as a couple hundred years ago, or even a thousand years, because the pace of change is so swift. And it was so affirming that one of our main investing philosophies at Black Swan Real Estate is the idea that our overall strategy has changed very, very, very little since we first started investing in 2011 with our own dollars, small single family home. We paid $35,000 for that home. Today we can barely renovate a unit, a single apartment unit for $35,000, let alone a whole standalone single-family home structure on its own parcel and everything. The strategy has not changed, which is buy real estate that needs some love and attention, some physical improvements, some management improvements, almost always a combination of both. Take care of it, hold it indefinitely, harvest out the equity whenever possible, benefit from the cash flow and the tax advantages in between, and then never sell. We've never sold a single asset. And yet the tactics change year to year, quarter to quarter, based on what's happening in the market, how much availability there is, what regulation is out there, what are interest rates, how's labor and materials availability. And that is essentially the exact same thing that the leaders of DMC said is that they cast this 20-year vision 10 years ago. They're at the halfway point, they're looking ahead, they're saying, yep, that's still the vision, that's still where we're heading. We're excited about that plan. And yet they've had to pivot quarter to quarter, year to year. Whoever knew there would be a pandemic, whoever knew that interest rates would go as low as they did in 2020, 2021, and then up as much as they as they have since 2022, 2023, and holding steady at higher rates than really anyone, including the Federal Reserve, predicted. Changes in construction, changes in healthcare, changes in medicine, changes in regulation, government, local government, state government, national government, you name it. And it was just so affirming to hear this main ethos that Nick and I have operated on for 15 years, that we've made literally hundreds of millions of dollars of decisions based on this ethos. And to hear it reflected in that real estate summit, man, was that affirming.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

One of the most I keep saying like the most interesting, but Mayo has this crazy problem. When you are so far ahead of the competition, so to speak, it actually becomes very problematic. I think a lot of people get stuck into scarcity mindset. And when you get the chance to hang out with groups, individuals that are achieving at a high level, you get to see that that they just live in a very different universe and they have a very different set of problems. So when you're practicing medicine or manufacturing cars or writing software at such a high level, it actually becomes very problematic that you don't have a peer group. And so every step of the way, DMC has been all about, well, Mayo could build this big thing, but if they don't have medical technology startups that go with them, if they don't have, if they don't have phlebotomists that can draw blood in sufficient quantity with sufficient quality, it doesn't matter if you have a five billion dollar hospital that's the best thing on earth, that has the best doctors and imaging techs. Like it takes a huge group of people, it takes an ecosystem of people. And Minnesota is very interesting. Minnesota ranks towards the top of almost every vital statistic ranking for things like lifespan and degree matriculation. And it has this crazy ecosystem where we have the number one healthcare payer in the world. We have the number one uh healthcare device manufacturer, Medtronic, in the world. There's this vast ecosystem of number one in the world. And Mayo really needs that ecosystem. It needs a team of rivals and collaborators and partners to be able to achieve what they want to achieve. So in in parallel to building this hospital of the future, they've built multiple districts. And there's, for example, in Discovery Square, we have a property residence at Discovery Square, which is a mixed-use apartment building. And it's literally just a giant med tech office complex that's being risen out of the ground in the hospital of the future so that Google has a campus here, and all these different innovators have a campus here, so that Mayo has the technology and the talent that's being trained in these other disciplines. And so the whole purpose of this meeting, this DMC Real Estate Summit is to get together and talk about all the cool things that are happening. Mayo could do all this in secret, but that would defeat the whole point. I think so many people are stuck in in scarcity. They're like, oh, I want a race to be in the lead, and then I'm going to dominate. Well, no, once you get to be the lead, you have a whole separate set of problems. It truly is lonely at the top. And you can't advance your cause alone. You never can.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I have a little real estate investing pearl I'll share. It's nowhere near as eloquent and beautiful as what you just shared, but it might be helpful for folks who are investing, which is when people are choosing to do active investing, they'll have this fear of like, oh my gosh, I have to put together a team. I need a plumber and a handyman and an electrician and a cleaner and a landscaper and this. And that's all true. You do need all of those people. And yet, what we will say is you just have to find one rock star, one A plus plus plus player. And it does, it could be the electrician, it could be the landscaper, it could be the cleaner. It doesn't matter who it actually is. Just keep building relationships until you find that A plus plus player. Let's say it's your electrician. You're like, man, that business or that solopreneur, they were on time, they were professional, great communication, took care of my property, took care of my residents or guests, billing was good. Every you just you just it was a wonderful experience. You go to that person and you say, hey, electrician, who's your favorite plumber? Who's your favorite landscaper? Who's your favorite cleaner? Who's your favorite handyman? You know, simple kind of general trades. Because A players like to play with other A players. So you don't have to go out and independently find every single A player in every single different trade that you need to build your team. You really only need to find one. And then once you find that one A player, you say, Hey, who are all the people that you like to play with? Because A players will not tolerate dealing with B and C players. If it's an electrician and they need to come in after, say, a plumber and that plumber leaves everything messy and the job site's crazy and stuff, they just simply won't work again on that job or with that customer. They want to work with other A players. So that's just kind of a little real estate investing pearl that I thought I would drop in here that was just related to what Nick was sharing about Mayo Clinic. I want to wrap up our time here together by sharing just this uh it's almost like impossible to believe until you see it with your own eyes. And we invite you to come out to Rochester or to join us virtually at our annual real estate real life conference where we get to share our love of Rochester and we talk about real estate investing and building a real estate investing plan for you and talk about real life, very much similar to this episode. And we take people on tours of the Black Swan portfolio, and of course, you get to see Mayo and Rochester. And we also bring along our virtual folks. So if you're not able to join us here in Rochester, we have amazing camera setups to bring along our virtual folks, so it's almost like you're just right there. But as part of the real estate summit, there were, I don't know, like five or six different walking tours that people could go on to look at either the Mayo expansion or the bus line expansion or some housing opportunities in Rochester, just lots of different development things that are happening. And Nick and I chose to go on the Mayo expansion tour. And in one site, there are four very, very, very large red cranes. I don't know how tall these things are. Probably, oh, I'm just taking a guess.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

They're enormous.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

My my guess might be 50 stories tall.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

So to put this in perspective, because it's difficult to comprehend, so we're looking at one of the holes in the ground from the top of like a 10-story building. And if you took that 10-story building and stuck it in the hole, you still wouldn't come out. They're digging 10 stories down to build the sub-levels of this building. And so these mega cranes need to be crazy articulating and stuff that they can go 10 stories down. Sometimes they stick them in the hole and then like 50 stories up. It's absolutely crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

It really is. It kind of defies the imagination. You look out at this job site, and the humans like they look like little Legos. They look like little Lego characters, the very large excavators and stuff look like our children's toys. It's really quite impressive. And in any case, they shared at the real estate summit that there are only six of these cranes that exist in the entire United States. Six of these cranes exist in the entire United States. Four of them are in one little city block in Rochester, Minnesota.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

For five years.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

That is just so staggering. We have a friend who has worked on the expansion for many, many years. And she wasn't able to share, you know, years ago what exactly she was working on. But one time Nick said something like, Hey friend, what's on your mind these days? And all she said was cranes and just kind of laughed. And we knew that she had NDAs and other things. We didn't push her on things. But now, I'm just chuckling because now knowing what has happened, we're like, what did it take for her to source these cranes when there's only six of them in the country and four of them are right here? Beautiful story. We hope that you've enjoyed learning about Rochester, Destination Medical Center, what it takes to have a 20-year vision, what it takes to steward a community through generational, 100-year change, learning about being a category of one, number one hospital in the world. So much here that is just awe-inspiring. And we hope that you've enjoyed it. If anything here makes you interested in investing alongside us, if you're interested in the Rochester story, the Destination Medical Center story, we'd love for you to learn more about investing with Black Swan at securefreedomfund.com. You can learn about our private equity fund offering there that's available to accredited investors. And hopefully you've picked up some things that you can apply to anything, right? Real estate is all about location. Real estate is hyperlocal. Think about population growth. Think about job growth, long time orientation. That's something that Nick and I share about as often as we can because we really think that that mindset is really what sets people apart from just stumbling around and getting some small victories mixed in with some losses versus people that really create something of substantial and meaningful long-term value in their life. The gap and the gain, thinking about having a long-term strategy and pivoting your tactics year to year or quarter to quarter and just kind of rolling with whatever punches life throws your way, but staying committed to the success that you're creating and focusing on how far you've come, right? Not just focusing on what's left, but focusing on how far you've come. Those are some of the things that were shared in the Destination Medical Center Real Estate Summit that we really benefited from. It was so awesome getting to take our baby and really just thinking about how different are things going to be when she's even five years old, 10 years old, when she herself is still very young. We'll be able to share with her. You were here at the 10-year mark of Destination Medical Center when you were just two weeks old. So thank you for joining us for this episode. It's our first episode back after the birth of our baby Elizabeth. We hope you got a lot of benefit out of it. Couple of disclaimers: nothing here is to be construed as investment advice. All investment has risk. Please do review any investment offering with your professionals, your CPAs, your attorneys, the people who are important to you. Another disclaimer that we have no official relationship with Mayo Clinic or Destination Medical Center. We are merely raving fans. And everything that we've shared here is our own opinion. Any accidental errors or omissions that we shared are completely our own responsibility. We're just sharing our own personal perspective and reflections on a really enjoyable event that we had at the DMC Real Estate Summit. It's been a pleasure recording this episode for you. If you got value, like, subscribe, leave us a five star review, share with someone in your life who would also benefit from the Real Estate Real Life podcast. And we will see you on the next episode.