SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Real Estate Real Life podcast. I am so excited about today. We have an absolutely amazing guest. She and I had a call a couple of weeks ago and it was just a blast. I like literally the hour passed in what felt like just a few minutes. So much goodness in that conversation. And then that led to me saying, Hey, let me not be selfish about how amazing you are and how amazing this conversation was. Let's get you on the podcast so that everyone can be a part of this conversation. It was just such a blast. You're going to know what I mean as you listen to this show. So I'm excited to welcome Dr. Katrina Skinner. She is a pediatrician, a private practice owner. She is the founder and owner of Women in Pediatrics and Pediatric CEO. She also has some real estate experience related to her practice. Like even just from listening to that very brief bio, she's going to tell you more about herself here in just a second. But even just listening to that very brief bio, you can already tell why I'm so excited to have her here. This is going to be an amazing time together. Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Thank you so much, Elaine. The pleasure is all mine. And I will tell you the excitement about meeting you was the same for me. So thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Absolutely. I did a very brief cursory bio of you, but tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you have going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Sure. Well, as you said, I'm a pediatrician. And people will ask me, when did I realize I wanted to be a pediatrician? And I think it was maybe in fourth grade. I entertained some other things, but never really strayed too far from that. And I always knew I wanted to practice in my hometown, which is a small coastal community in Fairhope, Alabama. And so that had always been my plan. And even through med school and residency, I thought I was going to join the local practice. There was only one pediatrician group in town. But then toward the end of my second year, when we started talking more seriously, I realized that they didn't actually have space for me. There was no physical space in their office to put in another pediatrician. But I also knew that our community really needed another pediatrician. And so the solution to me was to start my own practice. And so during my third year of residency, I did all of the due diligence for that. Through that, I realized that I could not find a suitable space to move into. And so I sourced some vacant land that was not on the market. I just cold called the owner and asked if they would sell it to me. And they said yes. And then constructed an office building so that by I don't know, six weeks after I graduated residency, I was seeing patients in the office.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Oh my gosh. I I even just when I hear that. So this is what it was like on the phone. You know, because you were on the phone, but to paint the picture for the listener, I said, say that again? You were still in residency when you made this decision. And and it's always a big decision to go out and do private practice. But particularly that you built, you did the real estate piece yourself. That's huge. And then added on top of that, I said, You bought a piece of land. You didn't just buy an existing structure and paint it, put some some equipment in there. That told me so much about you, right? Right in that opening sentence about how you think, your psychology. We're the real estate real life show. And that was just so much right there, where I thought, oh my gosh, you were living your dream life and made some big, bold decisions very early on in your career. I'd love to hear more about the real estate side of your practice so that we can cover that as well. Tell me a little bit about the psychology that you had at that time. Were you super excited? Were you fearful? Did you have some mentors leading you? I'm sure a lot of that is why you do the work that you do today with pediatric CEO and women in pediatrics. I'm sure it's to be a mentor to the younger versions of yourself. But put us into your mindset as you were making these decisions.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Looking back as a more mature woman now, I think, oh my gosh, I did not know what I should have been scared of at the time. So at the time, I really didn't feel scared. I felt excited. I felt very driven to solve the problem that was in front of me. And like I said, I really didn't consider any other solutions. It wasn't an option to me to practice in a different town or anything like that. So I think part of it was just naivety or immaturity, but also being very driven to accomplish what I saw as the best solution for me.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

What would you say to someone who maybe had that same drive that you had, had some of those non-negotiables, like wanting to be in your hometown, obviously wanting to do pediatrics since that was your specialty, who maybe did have some fear? What would the wiser version of yourself say to them today?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, I would say ask a lot of questions, find people who have walked the walk before, or people who have some knowledge in your area. And so that is one of the things that I did. I collected, I called them, I think it was my circle of five, I don't remember, but I had an attorney, I had a real estate agent, I had an architect, a contract, I had an accountant, and then I had a banker, which was a whole nother situation, trying to find someone who would loan a resident a million dollars to start a practice when you have no patients, no board credentials yet, because you're not eligible. Yeah, but I would say securing that kind of your board of advisors that you can turn to to get feedback from. And I still, still uphold that to this day.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

So, so good. I love that too. Day in and day out running running the real estate firm. It's really just about surrounding yourself by those experts. So wholeheartedly endorse that message. Tell us a little bit about the real estate side. So vacant piece of land, million-dollar loan.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

What was it like? Yeah. So the piece of land I chose, I think people at the time would have thought it was a little outside of the boundary of where medical office should be built. But having grown up there, I knew that was the path of progress. And so I saw a lot that was near a school. It was maybe three minutes from town. And I just looked up who owned it and contacted him and asked if he would sell it to me to build a pediatric practice on. And he he said yes. And so I had a family friend who was a contractor. He helped me find the real estate agent, the architect, all of the things that we needed. And then I hired an accountant. I forget how I found him, but he's the one who connected me with my banker. I had to go to multiple banks before I found one that believed in me. And then as far as the real estate progress goes, you know, I built the office. It didn't take long for my practice to be covering its expenses. So that was fine. And then about five years in, we really were just expanding beyond our capabilities in that physical space. And so we bought the lot adjacent to us to expand our parking lot and then did some renovations in the building so that we could create more exam rooms and take advantage of what had been a previously unfinished space.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Wow. You make it sound so easy. Which is what I love about you. That just and getting to know you, you just see the problem and you just figure out the solution. You figure out the players, putting one one foot in front of the other and just allowing that process to unfold and knowing that you'll you'll figure it out as you go. It's just it's so fun to to to hear those stories. How many years ago was this? Let's get get give us some context of when your practice started. Yeah, I built the building in 2009. Okay. Okay. So tell us today, a little less than 20 years later, tell us today what is a daily life like for you? How's your practice? How are you spending your time?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

So I always told myself I'm gonna commit to 20 years and then I have permission to reevaluate. And yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna make it to the 20-year mark. We'll see. But I have, as the business owner, it does give you more flexibility with the schedule that you work. And so I have been able to reduce my clinical time so that I can focus on other things that I enjoy. And then also because I had made those investments in the real estate early on, I'm getting to the point now where the building is almost paid off. I was able to sell part of the vacant lot that we didn't need. And so it that's creating some cash flexibility so that I don't feel bound to be in the office all the time.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah. Oh, so good. So some of the things that you created along the way are pediatric CEO and women in pediatrics. Tell us all about those adventures.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

So before, right before the pandemic, I just realized that I kept looking for this next level of education about business ownership and management, about entrepreneurship, leadership. And I just felt like even though I kept going to all the conferences that pediatricians are supposed to go to, the national conference, the practice management conference, I felt like I was always stopped just a little short of what I needed to know. And so I started trying to find that information on my own. And I was having to go outside of the medical community to find what I needed. And I realized if I'm out here looking for it, other pediatricians are too. And how can I find those people and get everybody together so that we can provide that content? And that's ultimately where Women and Pediatrics came from, which was designed around an annual wellness retreat for female pediatricians. And then a few years later, pediatric CEO, which is a business that supports the basically business development and leadership of pediatricians who own their own practices. And we do that through an annual intensive, which is our live event, and then through mastermind and coaching groups.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

So good. One of the things that I'm always so interested in, this is kind of a hack that I might offer to the listener, like, take this and run with it if this is valuable to you. Is when I see someone that has been successful on multiple fronts, I am keenly interested in like, what is your algorithm of thinking? What is what is what are what are the things, what are like the main lessons that you think have been pivotal to your success? So lobbying that question to you, what would you say have been some of the threads? Maybe they go back even into your childhood, early into your career. You clearly had very healthy psychology early on, having the courage to start not just the practice, but the real estate piece so early on. What have you learned along the way? What have you seen in all of the mentorship and the coaching you've given through women in pediatrics and through pediatric CEO? Let's just have a conversation about that. What are some of your like most important sort of ways of thinking that you would offer to someone else if they're listening and they're thinking, I want to start my own practice, or even I want to have a big career change, or I want to do a piece of real estate, whether it's for their own practice or a residential investment, whatever it is, if someone's hearing the success that you've had and they're thinking, I want a piece of that, what would you suggest to them in terms of their mindset?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Thank you. That's a great question. So the first thing I would say is advice that I got from a mentor a long time ago. And I was about a year in practice. I had been completely solo. I was on call 24-7. I was in the nursery, admitting babies, doing attending deliveries in the middle of the night. And I was exhausted. And I did not see how I could continue on that path for 19 more years. And so I called the colleague that I had discovered who was on the other side of the country, on the other end of his career, and he had created a practice where he employed 30 or 40 physicians in mid-levels. And I realized that that was more along the lines of what I wanted. I was not interested in having a partner, but I did know that I needed help to handle the workload. And so I called him and I was expecting that he would tell me some formula or equation or to use a spreadsheet, analyze the numbers in a certain way to know when I was to the point to hire help. But instead, what he told me is has become some of the best advice of my life. And that was every year, try to do more of what you love and less of what you don't. And so after he told me that, I started thinking about it. And that became my constant reframe. Every time I was feeling stressed, I would say, okay, what do I need more of? What do I need less of? And so in the beginning, that meant hiring an employee pediatrician to help me. That meant sharing call with colleagues. That meant stopping hospital admissions and deliveries. I had to get the entire pediatric community on board for that. And then that's also meant carving out more time for things like Women in PED's pediatric CEO and our real estate investments. And like I said, owning my own practice definitely gave me more flexibility and autonomy in doing that. One of the other things that really has had an impact on me was something that my grandmother always taught me when I was a child. And she would always say to me, You have not because you ask not. And she usually said that jokingly, well, you didn't have another cookie because you didn't ask for another cookie. But as I got older, I realized that that truly applies in life. And if we never ask for something, the answer is always no. And so I took that to heart to really be brave and bold to ask those questions, even if the fear inside of me said that it might not go like I wanted it to. So that those would be the two biggest ones that have impacted me.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

So good. Is there anything, any specifics that you would share maybe over the last say six months to a year? Like give us like some sort of recent story so that it feels very real, very vivid, where you ask for something that you wanted or you stripped away something that you that you didn't want to do. I love that phrase. You said, do more of what makes you happy. Give us some examples of that.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah. So one of the other things I firmly believe is that you should only do what only you can do. And so just because I am pretty good at drafting the schedule for the practice doesn't mean that I'm the right person to do that. Or even seeing patience. I'm not the only person who can see patience, but I am the person who can set the vision, solve the big problems, maintain the relationships in the practice. And so working to focus more on that and to kind of go along with that, I've always tried to practice uh the idea that hire as much help as you can afford. So if I have the money in the budget, then I need to hire the person who's going to specialize in that particular thing. Whether that's my most recent one was hiring a fractional CFO, which was a little bit personal because I felt like as the founder of pediatric CEO, I should know how to be CFO for myself. But I really was at a point that I needed outside help and it has helped me grow tremendously. And then even to little things, like I now have someone that I can call up as needed and she'll go run errands for me, right? I mean, I do grocery delivery, so I don't have to waste the time going into the store. All of those little things, in addition to some of the bigger ones.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

What would you say to someone who is maybe thinking about starting their own practice? Maybe they're straight out of residency like you were, or maybe they've been employed for a while. Like what would what targeted advice would you give to that small segment of our listeners who fit into that bucket? They're practicing medicine. Maybe they're feeling all of the ills of medicine, right? An employed medicine with too much charting and too much administrative and all of those things. And they're thinking maybe they could practice medicine in a different way. What would you say to those people listening?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, I would say explore why you want to do it, right? Because maybe not everything is going to be solved by owning a practice. And when you own a practice, you're going to open up yourself to other problems and risks, right? Owning a business is a risk that we take on. And we hope that it pays the reward or the return on investment, but that's not a guarantee. And so you really have to, I think, have the right mindset around being willing to give in order to take, or one thing I like to say is that you have to invest money in order to make money. But if you're doing it just because you want a better schedule, or just because you want to practice in a certain place, that may not necessarily be enough. So really understanding your motives and then getting feedback. Ask someone who knows you well, this is what I'm thinking of. Can you see me doing that? What do you think would be the biggest things that would get in my way? Or how do you think I would be most successful?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Tell us a little bit more about you, you told us about kind of how you founded Women in Pediatrics and Pediatric CEO at the at the beginning of the pandemic. Tell me a little bit more about those communities today. What common problems are you seeing that people are experiencing? How are you guiding people through those problems? Give us the peek behind the curtain into those areas of your life.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Sure. Well, I think some things apply to both audiences and some are specific to one or the other. For the women in pediatrics, I think their biggest thing is looking for connection, right? A lot of us practice in a silo and we don't really have the opportunity to truly commune with other people who are like us. And so that's one. And then also just giving them permission to invest in themselves. Um, you know, you don't have to go to a conference that's just going to enrich your medical knowledge, right? I mean, we can get that information at the tip of our fingers, but that connection and that self-investment is not as easy to come by. For the pediatric CEO audience, I would say for them, connection is also important. Meeting other practice owners who maybe have solved a similar problem or can even just commiserate. I think that's important. But it's also a valuable community for connecting people with resources and expanding their network.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Oh, so good. So so, so needed in in today's world, right? As a physician, a business owner, a leader, knowing how much those types of communities have benefited me. It just it that was one of the reasons I was so interested in getting to know you is knowing that you had created those communities to steward people along, right? Because it can feel so, so, so lonely in medicine as a female leader, as a CEO, going into private practice, so much goodness that you've created there. One of the things go ahead. Absolutely. No, I want to, I am always desperate to hear what you have to say because everything you say is so valuable.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Tell us, tell us what's on the thank you. Well, I would say the other thing is, especially with pediatric CEO, where our goal is to provide knowledge and education that we don't get in medical school, right? But it is so valuable and vital to us as practice owners if we're going to be successful in business. And so that's really our core focus is to, you know, when I first came up with the concept, it was like, how can I provide an MBA and a weekend for these pediatricians? Like, what are the core things that they really need to know to be able to lead like a CEO instead of just an accidental practice owner?

SPEAKER_00 18:08

What would you say are the main things like that MBA and a weekend? I love that concept. What would those be?

unknown 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

So part of it is going to be tactical, understanding the finance of a medical practice, understanding how we, which data is important, how we analyze it, how we interpret it. But then also it's that more strategic level where we're learning how to think like a visionary, we're learning how to delegate, we are learning how to lead and coach our teams, and ultimately creating a business that doesn't rely solely on us, that we could potentially step away from, whether for just a week of vacation or longer periods of time without the practice falling apart.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Love it. One of the things that I am always so interested when I meet someone who's fascinating, like yourself, is understanding your vision, understanding where you're going. I teach visioning. It's something that I just love doing in my life. And so I find that when I hear from other people what they're seeing in their visions. So tell tell us what do you see for yourself in the next couple of years? And then are there any particular lessons that you would offer to someone like, like, why are you going where you want to go? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

It does. Yeah. So I think what I'm going to say is something that probably resonates with a lot of people in your audience, but it's basically just creating more freedom, whether it's freedom of time, place, creativity, relationships, finance, all of those things. And so that has always been the thing that has driven me. I think I am kind of in a transition stage right now because I am getting close to that 20-year mark. I am feeling more like maybe clinical care is not the highest use of my time right now. It does not bring me as much joy as it used to. I know I'm still good at it, but there are a lot of other things that are exciting me right now. And so just being able to move into a place where I can kind of follow whatever's interesting, whatever thing is bringing me joy and excitement, heading toward that.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

So good. I keep saying so good because I'm just like everything you say, I just soak it up. There's there's so much richness there. And not just hearing like the answer to each individual question, but the theming there, the psychology, your way of thinking. Another thing that is always intensely curious to me when I meet someone like yourself who's just living an amazing life, doing a lot of things, kind of that renaissance person where you have a lot of unique talents, is when you think about who, maybe one, maybe two, we don't need to be prescriptive with it. Like just kind of tell me what where what comes to your mind. Who are the major influences on you? And in this question, maybe not so much like a family member or those kind of things. Like I'm sure you have those people. I know you you shared one of your grandmother's teachings, but someone that we could go, like a book we could go read, a podcast we could listen to. Like, what influences are you getting? For me, like I love Ray Dalio. I soak up his teachings and then I try to apply that to my life. Who are the people that you're soaking up that are helping you to create the life that you're creating?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah, that's a great question. I think the thing that probably kicked me into high gear was traction and the EOS system. So that was something that my practice implemented several years ago. And since then, we have continued to work on refining our management and all of that kind of stuff. I also love anybody who writes about time management and prioritization. So buy back your time was a great one last year. Atomic Habits is a little bit older. And then probably the one other one that has made the biggest impact on me in the last year would be unreasonable hospitality. And even though it's written about the restaurant industry, there is so much in there that is applicable to a medical practice or even a real estate business where we have tenants living in our in our units. So that book for me was really transformational.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I haven't read that one. So if you were describing that to me in just a couple of sentences, what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 22:06

It is how to shift your business's thinking to how you can deliver the biggest impact. So I believe one of the things he says in the book is, you know, 95% of it is gonna be all business, uh, whether maybe when you're talking about the budget. 95% of things we're gonna spend on the necessary, and then we're gonna set aside that five to just really blow people's minds. And so in my practice, we do little things. So if a family's been waiting longer than expected, the nurse will go in and make a balloon animal. If we hear about a family who's had a personal struggle, we're gonna send them a card in the mail. If we have something to celebrate with one of our teenagers, we might send them a Starbucks gift card or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

I love, I love those ideas. Yeah, just those simple things. And what I'm thinking as I'm hearing you describe that is particularly in the world today where everything is so fast-paced, starting to become AI driven. It's hard to even like get someone on the phone, thinking as a mom of littles myself, like, yeah, my kids would love a balloon animal. And they would, they would remember that, right? Like even the next year, they would say, like, isn't that the place where we got the balloon animal? I I love those examples. That's so cool that you're you're bringing that into the practice. If someone wanted to learn more about you, learn about pediatric CEO, women in pediatrics, how could they find you?

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, uh, so the best place is going to be the website for each event. So pediatrico.com and women in peds.com. I I do have a personal website as well, katrina skinner.com, and then my practice is fearhopepeeds.com.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

So all sorts of ways that someone can learn more about you and and be in touch and the these communities that you've created and women in pediatrics and pediatric CEOs, so much value there. So I hope people take a look at that and see if if you know what all the goodness is there. Thank you so much, Katrina, for being with us today. So much fun. I I I got my wish, which was sharing that call that we had a couple of weeks ago. And just that whole time, I'm like, tell me more, tell me more. Dive a little deeper into that and to be able to bring that to the podcast has just been an absolute blast today. Thank you for being here. Thank you for inviting me and thanks for the time we spent together.